Lin-Manuel Miranda and Eisa Davis present “Warriors” | The Excerpt

“The Warriors,” both a novel as well as a late 1970’s movie, is now a concept album from the creative minds of Lin-Manuel Miranda and Eisa Davis, both of whom have too many credits to name. Eisa Davis, a Pulitzer Prize finalist for her play Bulrusher, is also well known for the play Angela’s Mixtape which, in part, explores her relationship with her aunt, political activist Angela Davis. Lin-Manuel Miranda is, of course, known for his groundbreaking work in theater and beyond. His musical Hamilton remains a cultural phenomenon. Eisa and Lin-Manuel both join us on The Excerpt to discuss their newest project, “Warriors,” released on October 18, 2024.
Hit play on the player below to hear the podcast and follow along with the transcript beneath it. This transcript was automatically generated, and then edited for clarity in its current form. There may be some differences between the audio and the text.
Dana Taylor:
Hello, and welcome to The Excerpt. I’m Dana Taylor. Today is Wednesday, October 23rd, 2024, and this is a special episode of The Excerpt.
“The Warriors”, both a novel as well as a late 1970s movie, is now a concept album from the creative minds of Lin-Manuel Miranda and Eisa Davis, both of whom have too many credits to name. Eisa Davis, a Pulitzer Prize finalist for her play Bulrusher is also well-known for the play Angela’s Mixtape, which in part explores her relationship with her aunt, political activist Angela Davis.
Lin-Manuel Miranda is of course known for his groundbreaking work in theater and beyond. His musical Hamilton remains a cultural phenomenon. They both join us now to discuss their newest project, “Warriors”, which is out now. Eisa and Lin, thank you for joining me.
Eisa Davis:
Great to be here, Dana.
Lin-Manuel Miranda:
Thank you.
Dana Taylor:
People who’ve read the book, seen the movie, or are familiar with the taunt, “Warriors, come out and play,” know that this story revolves around gang culture, tribalism, violence, but also loyalty. Lin, what was it about this story that spoke to you?
Lin-Manuel Miranda:
As an ’80s latchkey kid who saw this movie way too young on a friend’s older brother’s VHS cassette, I think a couple of things. First of all, I think the reason it’s remained a cultural touchstone, one, it’s a beautiful movie. It’s just New York has never looked so gorgeous at night as it does in “The Warriors”.
Two, I don’t think it judges its characters. I think it thrusts us into the position the “Warriors” are in. We’ve come up to the South Bronx with the promise of peace, that peace is ripped away and we have to survive and we are thrown into the situation with them.
And two, I think as a kid it was really a primal fear starter kit for being a kid growing up in New York City, whether it’s the fear of wandering into the wrong neighborhood at the wrong time or meeting the wrong cop on the wrong night or just being too close to the subway tracks. There’s something in it for everyone. It was really my mental map of the five boroughs growing up, so it has stayed with me.
Dana Taylor:
Eisa, you’ve both created across different mediums, stage of course, but also film and music. How did you come to decide that this story would be best revisited as a concept album?
Eisa Davis:
I think that doing it as a concepts album was really exciting for both of us because even though it was something that Lin-Manuel had hoped to do first with Hamilton, it didn’t actually work out that way.
And it’s just something that as artists, we had never gotten to do, to make a full musical narrative with artists that we would never get to have on stage eight times a week. Getting to work with our amazing producer, Mike Elizondo, and this incredible band that he put together in his studio near Nashville. So there are a lot of things that were really freeing about making it an album and not a show.
Dana Taylor:
And Lin, now that the album is complete, I know that you’ve been asked this 1,000 times, but are there plans to further develop Warriors for the stage using this concept album that you’ve both created?
Lin-Manuel Miranda:
Steve Sondheim always said your final collaborator is the audience. And we’ve been so excited for our final collaborator to finally get in the room with us.
I remember the day, even more memorable than opening night of Hamilton was the day our cast album went wide, and this 46-song two CD thing was streaming out in the world everywhere. And I watched people reacting in real time and really listening to it in order, which is a rarity I think nowadays. I think most people, I think everyone on this call probably grabs their two favorite songs from an album and puts them in a playlist for their run or their commute.
And we’re really asking folks to sit and listen to a story, and I hope we get to explore this in another medium. But at the same time, I’m excited that you’re not hearing a recording of a thing you’re really supposed to go see. You’re hearing the thing we made, and we worked very hard to make this an immersive storytelling experience.
Dana Taylor:
Eisa, how did you approach your collaboration with this project, not only with each other, but with that extensive list of artists that you mentioned that you tapped for this one?
Eisa Davis:
I mean, first of all, I was just so grateful to Lin for reaching out to me and saying, “Help me write and lead this project.” He’s a longtime buddy of mine and we’ve never actually gotten to collaborate together, so from day one it was just a blast and we just continued to have so much fun.
And the same thing happened with all of our artists in the studio. We got to work with people that, again, I never expected to meet in my life. Marc Anthony and Kim Dracula and Shenseea. And then we also got to work with people that we love and know from all of our work here in New York in the theater.
Dana Taylor:
Lin, I want to stick with the artists on the album. Obviously we can’t work in what each of them contributed because there’s a lot there, but I do want to ask about a few. One is Busta Rhymes, because I know that he was an early supporter of the musical Hamilton. Was that an easy yes? And what was it like for you working with him?
Lin-Manuel Miranda:
It was an early yes. You hear all the time on the internet of someone understood the assignment. Obviously there’s a whole world for whom “Warriors”, particularly in the world of hip hop, for whom “Warriors” the movie is such a sacred text.
Nas was the first to sign on because the moment I said “Warriors” to him, his eyes just got enormous and he said, “That’s my favorite movie.” Busta came to an early listening party when we sort of played our demos for a group of friends for the first time, and he was there at the very beginning.
And yeah, I mean, it’s funny in terms of there’s voices we just write to as artists. Busta is who I write to when I’m feeling braver and smarter than myself, whether that’s Hercules Mulligan in Hamilton or the voice of Brooklyn on this album. And so I was thrilled he participated.
But with every artist, I mean, that’s another one of the reasons to explore this as an album first, you said it in the question, it’s a big cast. They meet a lot of gangs on their way from the Bronx back down to Coney. And that’s also an opportunity to explore a lot of different genres and work with a lot of artists who normally wouldn’t work together.
Dana Taylor:
Eisa, Lauryn Hill performed a song called If You Can Count. Did you approach her with the song already written for the album? And were there songs you wrote with specific artists in mind and then you went out to get them?
Eisa Davis:
Lauryn Hill, Ms. Lauryn Hill, we went to her with this song written. And we also know that she is an artist, nonpareil. She is not the kind of person who is just going to take anybody’s old rhyme and do it, or anyone’s old song, so it meant so much to us that she even considered looking at the song.
And then the fact that she looked at it, believed in it, and then sent us files back with her singing, with all of these unbelievable background vocals that she had produced and created, I mean, it just blew our minds and we fell on the floor crying literally. So we knew it had to be her to play Cyrus to call for peace and unity.
Dana Taylor:
With Lauryn and with some of the other principal characters, you swapped women for those. Lin, what was your inspiration behind making that shift?
Lin-Manuel Miranda:
A couple of things. One, I think we wanted to not do a beat for beat adaptation of the movie. The movie exists and is a sacred text in my head and household, and we wanted to carve out our own lane within that so that you’re automatically not going, “All right, this moment is going to happen. I’m waiting for this moment. I’m waiting for this moment.” Which happens to me sometimes when I’m watching an adaptation of a work that I love.
But really the inspiration for me was right around the time Hamilton was happening, this online phenomenon called Gamergate was happening where these toxically online dudes were harassing and doxxing women who dared to love video games the way they did.
And I remember when I first read about the phenomenon, making a connection back to “Warriors”, thinking, “That is such a Luther move to post someone’s personal information and then just let the world do whatever it wants to it.” Luther is the villain in the movie and on our album. He shoots Cyrus. He points at the “Warriors” and says, “They did it,” and then lets havoc run through the night. It’s sort of a malignant chaos.
And once I made that connection, I thought, “Well, what if the “Warriors” was an all-female gang and they are fighting their way from the Bronx down to Coney Island?” When you look at the beats of the movie through that prism, every plot point becomes interesting or compelling or different to write about, it wouldn’t shake out the same way.
And so as Eisa and I went through it, and I’ll tag in Eisa from here, it was very important to make sure that we’re not just changing their names and telling the same story, we’re really making it unique to this female gang that has kept Coney safe and is trying to get back home.
Eisa Davis:
Yeah. And as Lin said, the inspiration of the gender swap was just very specific to how women are treated given all of the sexist and misogynist systems and cultures that we have. And so we just thought, “Okay, well, if it’s women who are trying to make their way back home, then what kinds of obstacles are they up against?”
And they’re up against different gangs who are dismissing them, who are catcalling them, who are even trying to lure them into their lair like the busies do and just trying to attack them in an intimate way.
So it was really, really crucial to make sure that it wasn’t just women who were actually doing men’s things, but women doing women’s things on their way back. And I think that’s what really makes this such a beautiful story, is that it’s women in really tough situations and surviving with losses, but thriving in a dream of peace. That’s what I really, really laid into and got excited about in this adaptation.
Dana Taylor:
You’ve both explore diverse narratives in your work. Lin, when it comes to both this project and others you’ve produced, is there a hope that it will influence a broader cultural dialogue or awareness?
Lin-Manuel Miranda:
Well, I think every time I put pen to paper, I’m trying to get our numbers up on the board. I mean, honestly, that’s how my career started as a writer, honestly. I think it came really out of a deep fear of I love this art form of musical theater. And West Side Story is 50 years old, and that’s pretty much all we have in the theater canon as Latinos, and In The Heights was very much born out of a fear that I don’t see the kind of roles that would sustain a life in this art form I love.
And so really every time I write something, I’m trying to get us up on the stage, us backstage, us creating things together. So yes, I mean, full stop yes, that’s just a prerequisite to my entering the room and sitting at my desk.
The other fun thing with this was to explore even further afield musically. This movie is set in 1979 New York, and we took that as a permission slip to explore every genre and subculture that was popping off in New York at that time.
We got to explore Latin music, because Fania was revolutionizing Latin music out of the South Bronx in the ’70s. We got to explore some of the music coming out of the queer subculture and the nightlife that was happening at that time that inspired the film Paris Is Burning and the ballroom culture. We get to explore rock music and new wave music and ska music.
So in addition to the diversity you’re talking about, every time I’m trying to aim for as much musical diversity as possible, because I think it’s really fun to play with genre to reveal character.
Eisa Davis:
Yeah. And I just want to add that it’s really important, I think, to make space not only for your own identity, but for all identities that are underrepresented. And of course, as Lin said, we got to do that with this queer and trans crew of The Hurricanes and having this amazing Korean rap in the middle of a song, crucial.
And I really think that in a lot of ways, I became a writer because I didn’t see enough of myself. So in the same way that Lin’s origin story as a writer developed, it’s the same for me. We’re twins.
Dana Taylor:
Eisa, you’ve each separately developed projects where you were both a creator and performer. Why did you decide to not be players in this piece?
Lin-Manuel Miranda:
Look at my sweater. I’m the Warriors’ dad at this point. The running joke whenever we have one of these photo shoots is like, “I just don’t want to look like I’m the ‘Warriors’ dad.”
Eisa Davis:
Right.
Lin-Manuel Miranda:
Yeah. And there was no role. I mean, for me, I was just very excited to write lots of parts for lots of people. It never entered my mind to jump into the narrative.
Eisa Davis:
That’s funny. I mean, I would’ve gladly been in it even as the “Warriors”‘ mom. I would’ve made up a part where I’m just hanging out with them in Coney Island.
Lin-Manuel Miranda:
You said they would be home by now.
Eisa Davis:
I know, right? It’s like, “Where are those ‘Warriors?’ I made them some food.” So I’m always happy to jump in, but I understand that Lin was just like, “Yeah, I’ve had a little exposure here in being in my own pieces.”
Lin-Manuel Miranda:
Smash cut to five years from now when Eisa is the guest performer Cyrus. Let’s not count our chickens.
Dana Taylor:
Eisa and Lin, thank you so much for being on The Excerpt.
Lin-Manuel Miranda:
Thank you.
Eisa Davis:
Thank you.
Dana Taylor:
Thanks to our senior producers, Shannon Rae Green and Kaely Monahan, for their production assistance. Our executive producer is Laura Beatty.
Let us know what you think of this episode by sending a note to [email protected]. Thanks for listening. I’m Dana Taylor. Taylor Wilson will be back tomorrow morning with another episode of The Excerpt.